Unplayable sv issues in ESL matches


#1

Hi , I want to explain our experience of servers throughout most ESL matches in case you guys want to fix / solve the issues players face . I know this is not something new you guys hear everyday , but everytime you guys never try to look into the matter .
we often lose either to teams that are not good enough or we can not put up a big fight ; losing matches is not any issue . I lost many matches and I would lose plenty but what sucks is unfavorable condition of sv .
All of our teammates have fiber to home internet with internet speed minimum 1 Mbps ( up and down ) . so , please don’t reply with "fix your Bsnl broadband " . in official matches our ping spikes from 40 to 800 … Remember we all use different isps …yet we face lag at sametime . now this is obviously has to be server issue . at that point if opponents have sostronk sv in hometown …they somehow don’t get affected . please do download the demos of random matches of ESL and check it out .

Sostronk can afford to keep empty svs in Singapore or elsewhere but why no servers in all metro cities in India so both teams don’t get unfair advantages / disadvantages ?

Again I’m saying it is not losing that breaks us but the unfair advantages ( out of our disadvantages ) that opponent gets during match is not acceptable .

I really hope you guys care enough to seriously think of this issue .


#2

Hi, thanks for the detailed post - there are valid concerns and some misconceptions here - let me address those.

I’m sorry but if you have already made this assumption then nothing much can be done. You need to have a little more faith than that :wink:

Yep it does, it sucks. Our team have been playing CS for a long time (and couple of us have played professionally), so you can trust that we understand that point - we’re not some random bunch of kids putting a server somewhere without any clue of what we’re doing.

Please show me where we have replied with that exact sentence (our forum, like any other, is searchable).

Our match servers are launched into locations automatically selected by the SoStronk App (yes those pings you see during the map veto, they’re there for a reason :wink: . However, whenever you notice all 10 players in the server are facing lag, please pause the match (.pause available tp captains in all official matches) and call an admin (on Steam or SoStronk chat). Note that during peak times it may take admins few minutes to come in to your server, if in the meantime you’ve played some rounds in lag, the admin can !restore rounds if both teams agree.
Again, note that the admins will do their best to host your server in a location favorable to both teams. However, thanks to ISP routing and other issues sometimes it might be impossible to reach a balance and admins will be forced to use their experience and launch it where they deem fit.

What you have encountered is the complexity of Computer Networks. Even though when you visit a website, or connect to a CS:GO server, things seem simple, but there is a LOT going on here. India is the fine example of screwed up ISPs and their routing, and weird stuff happens. For example, I live in Bangalolre and my ping from my home Airtel Fiber is 40ms while from SoStronk HQ in Bangalore its 4 (even though the datacenter is physically closer to my home).

That won’t help, please link to your matches where we can see the issues in the demo. Then we can work from there :slight_smile:

To be honest, we can’t afford them. Two things-

  1. Most of our servers are launched on-demand, so if there is an empty server in Singapore, its just a DM. PUGs/Scrims/Matches are only launched on demand.
  2. Singapore has one of the cheapest datacenter costs we have encountered. India is the most expensive after Australia and UAE. Our current costs for India are the highest.

Because, as I explained, computer networks don’t use the roads. So, just having a server in your city doesn’t mean your pings will be lesser. Indian ISPs ping best to servers in Chennai, Mumbai, Bangalore and then Delhi - in that order.

Finally, as I’ve mentioned, the next time you have all 10 players in the server lag (indicating a server issue), pause the match immediately and call an admin.


#3

thanks for your reply .
I understand that it is not easy for you guys to fix each and every issue , however you can try . from my experience I can tell routing through “VSNL.NET” is the problem . like today we had an official match ( t3amkill v Blitz , match link https://www.sostronk.com/match/4605674414145536-t3amkill-Blitz ) . the 1st sv we were given had bad ping ( not spike ) for 4 members of opponent and 1 of us , so we agreed to change sv . the next sv was just more than fine for opponent ( 5 ping all ) however 2 of us including me had huge ping spike ( 40-700ms ) throughout the match . that was just unplayable . we reported to admins but he didn’t do anything ( you can see chats between admin and us in match demo ) . he just ignored it saying svs were being ddosed .

just because one team has 5 ms ping that doesn’t mean other team would be fine to play in that sv . because routing problem is hugely associated with distance vector protocol .

this is not the 1st time we faced such bad server and ignorant admins … go to our team page and download the demo of us playing against “Kosenrufu” ( https://www.sostronk.com/match/4560906950803456-t3amkill-Kosenrufu/5629499534213120-cache) . you can see the admin’s BSNL ref that you asked for . we won both pistol rounds but we could not win… cause 3 of us were having ping spikes during gunshots . csgo is a game of momentum and economy . but yeah , ping spikes , bad sv issues , ignorant admins can break the momentum and economy anyday .


#4

Today was pretty exceptional tbh, we had dozens of flawless games on Sydney and the moment it was time for Indian+ME matches chaos ensued. There was something majorly wrong in some common ISP infra that a lot of players (including the main admins like @Nemz @Thunderblade) were having losses and ping spikes. This included reputed ISPs like ACT. This whole time, I had consistent 0% loss at 30 ping to Mumbai from Airtel Fiber. We rehosted matches through 2 different datacenters and though for some teams it helped - few other matches had to run with 1-2% intermittent loss.

At the end it boils down to the instability Indian ISPs have. We at SoStronk understand that we can’t fix that immediately till we get the eSports scene in India even better. But what we are doing is using technology and smart software that can atleast workaround the bad ISP infra (one example is the pings you see in map veto, those are considered when our backend suggests server locations to admins).

Yes, what it means is that if all routing were perfect, your ping to something 50km away will always be less than something 500km away. However, I’ve mentioned in my previous post that routing in India (and Asia in general) is far from perfect. The only place I’ve seen routing close to ideal is Oceania (Australia etc).

The admins will be called “ignorant” only if there was a location where the pings would be fair but he ignores it. There have been more than couple of cases where one of the teams suggested that another location would be more fair and the match was moved there to test*. So, please let us know if there was any case where your team could see on the app that you and the other team will both get good pings to a location so that the admins can move your match. Just because there was no location in which the pings would be fair didn’t mean the admins were ignorant, it meant that they didn’t have a choice.

  • Which is exactly why we spent time to develop our unique server rehosting system - it was hard to do and if we didn’t care we wouldn’t have done it.

#5

A quick note on this, routing is not under our control. Its very nice that you’ve done some traceroutes to find out what routes are causing issues. Please report them to your ISPs with the traceroute screenshots etc, tell them that its time to take eSports seriously. Most of the ISPs might not be able to solve them, but I’ve heard from players about times when some ISPs have listened and fixed the problems.